Welcome to the doctor nurse podcast.
I'm your host, dr. Sandra contenta.
I'm a doctor, Lee prepared nurse practitioner.
And I am so glad you decided to join me today.
The doctor nurse podcast is a podcast for nurses and nurse
practitioners that are wanting to understand what exactly their
degrees can do for them. After the birth of my son, I had
this baking desire to have more flexibility in my career
choices. Despite feeling like all the
alphabet soup, after my name didn't really afford me.
Me very many options, I launched the podcast to find the answers
that I, so desperately needed. I also knew I couldn't be the
only nurse who felt this way. This is sound like you, if so,
come and hang out with me as I figure out what our nursing
degrees can give us access to as far as career flexibility
control over our schedules and Entrepreneurship my talking with
NPCs and our friends who are doing exactly that.
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Doctor nurse podcast, fam. Welcome to another episode of
the doctor nurse podcast. Today, I have on Shira page, she
is a nurse practitioner Is the Bobby medical community manager
for the Bobby formula company. Her career has centered around
improving, clinical care of people, in their most
challenging moments, she studied nutrition, and dietetics, and
fall and followed by a masters in nursing.
At the University of Massachusetts Medical School.
Her expertise, is in endocrinology, Women's Health,
and weight medicine. She worked as a nurse
practitioner and mount Urban Hospital.
Focusing on intercom concerns during pregnancy postpartum
after becoming a mother. Mom, she saw firsthand the
challenges of infant feeding and became a certified lactation
consultant like certified. Lactation counselor, before
joining Bobby, she serves as the medical director as we said
earlier, at the community continuing medication, medical
education company and a continuing.
Oh, do you did that before you were at Bobby?
I think I read that in your history.
Yeah. You served as a medical director
at a community at a can say that word continuing education, Edge
company. And she was designing, clinical
education materials, I'm assuming to improve patient
outcomes and she lives in Boston, with her husband and her
two babies. Welcome to the podcast.
Thank you. What?
A beautiful introduction. Yeah, yeah, so happy to have you
on. I'm really excited to be here.
I am big fan, I just love nurse podcast, the talk about career.
I think, you know, like five years ago, there were that many
of them. And I that was when I was really
at a turning point in my career and I was trying to like, so got
any information that was out there.
Find other people in the space, we were looking to make career
changes or look outside of clinical care.
And I felt totally alone and isolated.
And now that industry is like booming and people like, you are
Paving the way to elevate nurses and make them feel like the
world is their oyster and they're just so many options out
there and Empower them and their career.
I'm not sneaking instead he said thank you for the work that you
do, and thank you for doing this work.
As a new mom life deep in it really appropriate that look,
thank you for saying all that. That is so just kind very very
kind sure. Uh so when you reach out to me
about the podcast, I was so excited to talk about the thing
that we're going to talk about today which is a little bit
about your career, kind of how you got started what you're
doing and then also the conversation around breast.
Of elk formula mom, shame, and that whole like that whole
thing. So what we're going to do is
we're going to start off a little bit with you, just
telling us kind of what your job is.
Most people don't even know what a medical community manager is.
I don't know, you know, fully, I know a little bit now that I've
met you but outside of that kind of explain to my listener who's
just like, wait, what is she kind of what you do for a living
and then, yeah, we'll dive into the other things, totally.
So actually, my title has changed a bit.
It's medical Partnerships me. You're now because I think, you
know, medical community manager and Partnerships are very
similar, but we started focusing a little bit more.
The Partnerships aspect of thing.
So I joined Bobby of almost a year ago.
Now I was coming from Lake you noted from the continuing
medical education space which is very much in.
Try to spin it was a magical journey including clinical
challenges and assisting with rebuilding this, the Deeds,
you've got funding from pharmaceutical companies for Ian
and I kind of looking for something that felt more Mission
driven under the line was something that I was super
profitable. Really, I wanted to be the one
in housemates very, very long time.
It's test with the Parvati motherhood isn't beating my
whole life. Obviously, there's certain
things, I'm sorry. Certification along women called
them identical kurihara ecology and so miss Rolle at which was
really working to engaged. Clinicians.
So you know, we do and bench from not on the market but also
just helps improve infant feeding clinical care through
provider education, because you and I probably post no infant
feeding your knowledge back here.
So you know if you are a physician you've been in
Pediatrics residency your education
On that topic less, you seek it out and you will be a great
delivery nurse. Even if you are set up to pursue
your ibclc within doing labor and delivery nurse care, you can
have very limited mentorship and just have someone sign off on
your hours. So there's all these spaces for
massive gaps to be created in the end point.
Which is providers supporting parents infant feeding and not
having the knowledge or evidence-based has to do
something. So that's something I'm really
passionate about fixing and part of my role is creating education
so that we can fill that Gap. I also help Healthcare
Providers, just get content around infant feeding help to
understand our product both on the ground in medical offices.
Medical conferences, through continuing education, content
resources, Has and then very focused on creating a community
of healthcare providers that are passionate about infant feeding.
And they kind of see that dichotomy that exist are instant
beating narrative, which is either that breastfeeding, is
the only way that parents should feed at all costs, regardless of
what's going on with them, or their babies, or how challenging
it is for their situation, the feeding experience or side, See,
I think that meeting I just like, well, you know, this is
really working out, like, here's formula I just it's not that big
deal, just go and do it and they're not acknowledging
parents that maybe breastfeeding is really important to them.
So trying to get rid of that dichotomy and bring providers
together to have more nuanced conversations about this topic
so that we can actually support parents in reaching their goals
in feeling like this is an empowering experience from start
to finish. Instead of something that has
just become so wrought with shame and suffering and just
people dread like people started to fear have stated by The Dread
of being their babies when they get pregnant and start to think
about new motherhood because all they hear horror stories or they
don't feel like they time and space or resources to feed their
baby. They want the way they want to,
or they know that they're going to feed their baby in a way that
they're not going to feel supported in doing so.
Always breastfeeding and formula feeding parents time to feel
this way either. They feel like their seems buy
their freedom or year or their health care provider or they're
doing the wrong thing. Their friends are all doing
something different. So Healthcare Providers are
really at the center of this and my dog allows me to give them
the tools and resources to make this a better experience and
also bring in more evidence-based, care to this
clinical domain where it's really lacking?
Yeah. And that is a very interesting
way to use your Nursing degree and the ability and what you've
learned through your experience as a nurse practitioner to
actually be able to have a corporate job to work in
Corporate America and be able to bring that side, almost the
humanistic sock. The people that you are creating
the formula for your actually bringing what I, what I kind of
see is this humanistic side to, Hey, listen, how do we Bridge
those gaps between what the medical community is doing
between the patient between what we're providing as a form.
The company. And I think that's actually
really, really cool. And I, you know, I want to make
sure that I'm staying true to what I believe and again I think
this is just something for me. Personally, hear the doctor
nurse podcast that I believe breastfed breastfed babies and
babies that are breastfed, is the best thing for them.
As a healthcare professional, we know that milk comes.
That comes from you as the moment is the best and that they
children, that are breastfed have lower rates about ear
infections diarrhea, vomiting helps reduce the rate of type 2
diabetes and mothers as well as certain cancer.
Sirs, we know that it's an active food, right?
That it has enzymes that in live cells.
That tailored to your babies need day in day out.
These are Concepts that are just irrefutable it in the literature
and we know that that's these things are true.
However, I also know, and that you said very briefly that there
are situations that make it hard for Mom's, right.
We've talked a little bit about systemic issues, such as lack of
maternity, leave the things that moms don't have access to, they
don't have support at home, there aren't Obvious in and
always easily accessible resources like, like lactation
Consultants things like that. That help bridge, those gaps
that you're having, if you are breastfeeding and kind of like
what you're saying, dreading every moment of breastfeeding.
However, what I think, and what I really wanted to create a
conversation around was, you know, as formula companies and
as a company that's creating formula, they have an obligation
to provide a certain formula quality.
And then, as parents, we have to make those decisions.
We also know that not all formulas are created equals and
that there are like we said earlier, there are circumstances
that prevent moms from doing that again.
You could have had a breast augmentation surgery that can
cause you to not produce milk. They were real real things that
people are dealing with that. Make it hard to breastfeed.
I found an interesting last night when I was doing research.
That 84 percent of American babies are breastfed at Birth
and then by three months that number has fallen to 50%.
And then by six months, that number is down to 25%.
So 75% of baby. Getting some type of formula by
six months, right? I mean, that's that's the
reality of the situation so we can we can, you know, walk
around the Nuance but we can also realize that no, these
things are things that we're having to deal with as parents.
And so we're hoping that there is so many Bridging, the Gap
between the medical community and the providers and us as the
parents. So I think that's really, really
interesting and good to talk about.
And again, this is a global issue that we've got to chat.
And again, Bobby is Actually, what I purchased, I purchased
two cans prior to having my baby.
I am eight weeks, postpartum and I purchased your formulas for my
daughter. Just in case, I wasn't able to
produce milk because I need to feed my baby.
And so I felt like your formula was the best that I did.
My research on, I'm only speaking for myself, this is not
coming from them. I did my own research and felt
like this was the best thing and so I actually supported your
company. So, I was glad again to chat
with you about it today. Giving all of that and feeling
that way, So tell me a little bit about why you feel like this
culture is their surrounding moms and the guilt that we feel
about kind of feeling push to breastfeed versus supplementing
or yeah, kind of weird. This stems from and your
experience kind of where you've been working.
What if you've been getting from people?
Yeah well thank you for everything you just shared as
well. I think it's interesting and
maybe be helpful to provide some contacts just to share a little
bit about my I own became story. My mom is actually, or was a La
Leche League leader when I was growing up.
And if you aren't familiar with lilac, tingly beating because he
organization in traditional, they've done a lot of things.
Sick work in this Beast, for getting that Brassfield to his
channel support. All of what side they are.
Incredibly dogmatic about breastfeeding and do not allow
any sort of discussion of formula whatsoever.
They're very focused. August attachment parenting and
be parents being with their babies 24/7.
We allow them to proceed which, you know, is fantastic.
And is a deal that does not fit into any lifestyle.
You know, it not inclusive of parents who are not lactating
period or couples that do not have a lactating period, and it
doesn't really align very well with parents who are working 40
hours, 40 hours, plus having to go back to work at six weeks.
It also just said in the line with some people's preferences.
So, you know, I think it's important to incorporate in this
conversation, you brought up a lot, pull examples for why
someone may not be able to breastfeed at all, or why they
may be not able to breastfeed exclusively why they may need
supplementation. Those other Stones situations
like that, and it cost of just want to call out to parents, who
maybe feel for whatever reason that this is a good choice for
them. Because those people exist, they
don't think they. Oh, it's you or I, or to their
health care provider or to their friends or their mother-in-law.
It's necessarily had a reason, right?
Like, it's their body and their baby and that's their decision.
Then I just want to be respectful at that because there
are so many reasons whether it is their mental health, whether
it's a history of trauma, whether ER, it's how they just
Envision their parenting or driving.
Or, you know, I have a very close friend to is planning to
get pregnant in the next year, who just has likes to be your
anxiety around health, and body, and you've already made the
decision. I'm going to, she's going to
exclusively formula feed, and it's just because she knows that
it will destroy her parenting experience to try to have
another thing involves that involves her body.
Being self-sufficient, that's definitely something to digest
then like work on and it's not ideal that she feels that way
but she's made that decision. And I would just want to respect
all those people that have decided that that is not the
decision for them. Going back to the thing that you
said before. It is true from CDC data.
We know that about 75 percent of u.s. parents will use formula in
the first year and there's other research that calls out that
about two-thirds of the parents will feel guilty of doing.
So, do you thirds of pairings for use for real answers either
baby, in some capacity, will feel guilty about that.
Just this morning, I was talking to and ibclc who works in the
New York City area and she was sharing with me that, you know,
she sees parents who like have gone through traumatic birth,
sort of, in septic post break and had to supplement.
Because obviously they're not creating a full milk supply.
I think that and there Like wrought with guilt about doing
that. I had to do that.
Yeah, I had to do that. When my son was born in the
NICU, he was born with blood sugar issues, and my milk hadn't
come in. And so we had to supplement with
formula while he was in the NICU for 4 days.
And so, yes, I hundred percent agree with you.
I didn't have. And again, can you imagine, like
I feel awful this birth experience, is gone
traumatically the wrong way. I don't, I did not even you
know, again, C-section all the things and he's in the ICU.
See you. I never got to hold him like,
until the first, like, for the first four hours.
I didn't even know where he was when it was very traumatic.
And so, then I go up there and see him, and my milk is not
here. And he's hungry, and he's hungry
because he has the blood sugar issue that's causing him to need
nutrition immediately. And so, we have to, we have to
formulate, I had to supplement with formula right from the get,
right? I didn't have an option because
my kid needed food, so I get, I totally agree with you.
There are many situations that require you to use formula and
again, And you do feel awful because not only has this
experience, not gone the way that I wanted the trauma of
birth. But now, the feeding part, the
part that I'm supposed to be naturally equipped to do, I
can't do right now. I've gotta feed him again or
like the way that I don't want further.
Furthering the trauma of this is not what I want and but I have
to do it. So yes, I totally agree with
you. Yeah.
That's and it's so unfortunate. It like breaks my heart to think
about because this is such a this Is such a magical time or
has the potential to be such a magical time and entering the
into Parenthood and Forest and feeding your baby.
Also, the ability to be improving and there's just so
many touch points where it has become a disempowering
experience that creates trauma that sets people up to feel like
they lost something or they should have.
Had it differently? I think we'll, you mentioned
Seaside. Stands or surgical births and I
thought it was a great parallel and ways, but I'm really
starting to like shift The Narrative on that you would be
like the only way to have a quote unquote successful birth.
It's to have like an on Medicaid for God's role.
Every you don't put a shirt for that by the way, you don't you
don't get a shirt at the end of him for doing it that way.
So bring on the up and down and then it's just so like it just
colors there, huh? Hold up, stardom experience to
feel like they had that option taken away from them.
And, you know, I don't want to Sidetrack guys.
Getting into all the nuances of Bertha that's Bertha system and
joys and birth like that's a whole nother conversation but I
do think it as a good parallel because you would never have an
OBGYN go to a parent who Stephanie.
Well, you know, if you don't have a vaginal delivery like
you're doing second best. I'm like We need to keep pushing
and risk your health and the health of your baby and put
everything on the line to make sure that you have a vaginal
delivery and in some ways, that's kind of what's happening
with a lot of breastfeeding and care that it's just, that's like
one track mind that there's no room for a conversation.
There's no Wayne of risk in Plymouth.
And I think for me, as thinking about the healthcare provider
and how they can improve it. There isn't shared decision
making. So we know as healthcare
providers that if you are going to talk to a patient about an
intervention about the medication, any decision about
whether you should be using shared decision-making, and that
should be decision that you're making together.
Where you helps, you understand the patient's goals and
preferences. You share with them some medical
information or Banks you split. Transfer them with your clinical
insight, and then you work together to find how those
things intersect. I do not see providers in
powered or educated to do that with infant feeding.
I see that they have two sides of the coin and they're either
pushing one thing or dismissing it, but I don't see that they
know how to take the time to help patients navigate that
complexity. And I think that that's really
something that we can all work on.
It's something that I'm Trying to work on in the education that
we put out and bought in the community that we're building.
Because I think the more and more that providers, who touch
the patients earning in the first year of Life, are able to
have those conversations, the more impact journal and feel
like they're walking into something as a decision that's
supporting their goals rather than as having their options
stripped from them, out of necessity.
Thanks for listening to the That I hope you're enjoying the
conversation. I wanted to take this time and
remind you to check out the success and PSE shop.
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Now let's get back to the episode.
Yeah, and I think what you're describing there is the crust,
the crutch of it, right? Which is what are your goals?
Everybody has different goals and that's why when things don't
go as you want, as you see planned either in birth or with
breastfeeding. And you do feel a level of guilt
shame, all these different concepts around it.
Because you had these expectations that things were
going to be a certain way, which is why when my birth went very
differently than what I envisioned, it was the
expectation of what I thought versus the reality of what it
was. And so again for me at that
point the goal is shifted, right?
So I was just like, I'm just going to focus in on doing the
best that I can to breastfeed my baby at my pace and so whenever
We're home will do the but, you know, like so that became the
shift, right? That became the shift, but I
never let the goal of what I wanted to be altered.
I was going to do the best that I could.
I think that's the part that we need to give each other a little
more grace on is doing the best that you can in the situation
that you had. And I agree with you if an OBGYN
were to have said that to me and the moment then I would have
been like, okay, well do I keep trying?
Like it would have put me at risk, right?
And so now when she leaned over, The drape and said, hey Mama you
did the best thing right now. For that baby, that you needed
to come out. That was comforting to my soul.
Right? And so and I have it engraved in
my memory and I you know, unless something happens to my brain, I
will always remember her leaning over the drape and telling me
that we saved him and that was the right thing to do.
And in those moments, you know, when you're just like laying
there completely helpless and and having this major abdominal
surgery to park, you know, have your baby out into the world.
You need to hear those things. You need to hear again.
What? I want mom's to here, which is
As you are doing the best you can in the situation that you
are in and I think that's the rhetoric that we need to hear
now, they are some moms that are just not doing the best that
they can. They don't want to do the best
that they can. And that's a whole other class
of people write like we can't pretend like that stuff doesn't
exist. There are moms that are not
doing the best that they can but there are I think the majority
of mothers that are doing the best that they can to situations
that they're in and that's that's the stuff that neat the
mom's guilt in the moms, shames got to stop her.
And because we are all for the most part, try and do the best
that we can in the situations that were in and again,
protecting your mental health protecting, you know?
Again, if your vision is for something else and your goals
are for something else, then do those things because that's what
works for you and I think that that is kind of where the cot
was for the where the buck stops really is, where you feel like,
Hey, listen, this is good for my life, and you have to live with
whatever that will be and we all have to make those decisions.
Ins in our life towards different things at every moment
of the day. And so, yeah, I think having
that conversation and providers kind of standing in the Gap and
letting people know if this is what's best for you and if this
aligns with your goals, then I'll walk with you along side of
that and I'll support you. I'm going to present to you the
truth. I'm going to present to you the
facts, but I'm also going to take into your situation
specifically so that we can tailor a plan that works with
your goals. I believe that's what we as
prey. Your providers have a
responsibility to do. And so yeah.
So how would you recommend? You know, those are that's kind
of my feeling about it is again, reverberating almost like Mantra
like status. This is what works for me.
How do you think that women can combat this mom guilt,
especially, circling around feeding feeding their baby?
Yeah, I mean, I think that what you said is really aligned with
a lot of the things that we've talked about it, Bobby, we had a
campaign in the fall about combination feeding, and That
one of the mantras was that your best is best, right?
Like, I think that that messaging is so important and I
think the Expectations vs. Reality concept that you brought
up is actually a perfect starting place.
So that is kind of those expectations are how you create
a vision of what success looks like for you and what and
Empower and positive experior looks like and so on.
There's a lot of Education that can happen there about shaping,
those expectations, and I think it's a really sticky topic to be
quite honest, right? Focused with you out.
Breast milk is sticky, icky formula of sticky.
Yes, I think that, you know, we actually have a research study
coming out. What I'll be excited to share on
expectations versus what the actual experience is and how
that impacts mental health and there's been other research and
they stay face to specifically around feeding, but in the
conventional kind of lactation education space there is this
idea that you never want to kind of talk negatively about
breastfeeding and how challenging it might be your
about how you might need prevalent side of like, very
severe scenarios because you just, you don't want to, like,
scare parents away from breastfeeding.
And so, I think that's kind of, its kind Pull the wool over the
eyes of terrorists in some ways, like, you know, they cure things
from their friends, but like it would be really nice if we were
able to have really transparent conversations that were both
educational and empowering to set people up for a CD and
experience. So, helping them understand all
the different touch points where they may face Challengers and
tough understand the statistics to understand their own and
scenario, like, you know, it if someone is going into a surgical
birth or if they're having a premature baby for really
explaining educating their feeding experience, maybe like
which is the left out of the conversation and allowing that
to be something that isn't seen as there's dark like creeping
thing that's going to sabotage their potential to be a
successful at breastfeeding but and something that is actually
going to help I'm more realistic expectation and have a clearer
vision, all the different ways that they can feed their baby so
that they're not completely blindsided.
And feel like the vision that they have is just mashed and now
they're doing this thing that they feel totally crappy about.
So, it is challenging because those resources, both from the
clinical providers and just in general, General are you know
they're not as prominent as we would like them to be in that
meeting by this good that participated in an honestly
ashamed. To say, some of the ones that I
used to lead for Renewal period, work movie to talk about formula
at all except to help parents figure out how to navigate a
avoiding formula used when it's recommended in the hospital in
certain situations because that is what you are taught in a lot
of the lactation education. And I I think that there's an
opportunity there to Providers and the lactation Fabricators
include a more holistic conversation so that people feel
like they understand everything that is on the table for them
and how they can use it as a tool.
Just like we use medication as a tool or therapy as a tool to
make a feeding darting that works for them.
So clinician Network and also with network Partners in the
medical space, it's called feeding friendly and those
partners are committed to providing that sort of
education. So whether it's a pediatric
provider or a parenting education platform, maybe you
can go there and loaded the card and that your aunt is goat.
Not going to like eight key information about infant feeding
and is going to make sure that you understand the full spectrum
of how you can navigate your own situation, what the options are.
So I think that Daddy in seeking out that type of education is
really important on the patient side and then I always just kind
of add on the provider side that I honestly think the biggest
thing is like when they and really hearing what parents are
telling you, you know, we we all want to think that were very
good as this, but many providers are stuffed with time and
resources, you know, especially I really feel for Pediatric
providers seeing babies. They get a lot of heat for not
being good at not. Beginning infant feeding and
not, you know, supporting breastfeeding about like they
have 15 minutes to do a full newborn and pairing assessment.
Then didn't have any does very complex topic?
I should really hot light and we're its Lane involved.
So they just really taking the time to listen to that area and
here where they're at that is just so essential.
Yeah, Hoping to either take the same amount of things.
I think that, you know, the more that we can create team-based
care to That as well is really helpful.
So if you feel like you don't have the time in the office, to
address the situation, like bringing in a team of mental
health professionals, lactation, and feeding support providers,
who can do that of getting on the phone with the OB and
talking to them about what you're seeing postpartum, so
that you can all collaborate together to make sure this
parent is supported in the healthcare space.
Yeah, I think what you're saying and what I'm hearing most most
from that, That from that speech is that basically, we've got to
support mom's better, and that's kind of what I would like this
podcast episode to really say is that, if you're a mom, a nurse
mom, or a provider that is listening, and you're just like,
wait a minute. Like, I haven't really thought
about this again, listening to what women are saying and
hearing them and then referring them to the appropriate.
Resources, can keep someone who's trying to breastfeed.
If those are her goals breastfeed, and if there's a
woman that is Listen, I don't want to do this anymore.
I'm tired exhausted, mentally fatigued, it's affecting my
mental health, whatever. Whatever it is.
I'm not making enough. My baby is not gaining weight.
The mirror out of things that can be going on, then having
those conversations and again, refocusing goals and say, Hey
listen, if we're going to do this and these this is the
reality of what we're doing. And these are the resources that
we have and taking that time will keep people successful or
will help people make the lives that they want with, you know,
with their feeding jury with their Aaron and will make them a
better parent because if you're not, you know, feeling like
you're being heard and supported.
We've heard recently in the news that there was a mother that you
know, hurt herself and her three children and you love him.
You're just like people are really dealing with a lot of
mental health issues. And again, as health care
providers, we have the unique opportunity of stepping into
these people's lives, every so often and seeing how things are
going. And I think that we can have,
like, you said those conversations and refer people
for Those that are wondering what those resources are, you
know, lactation Consultants are always available.
And again, they're not in every area.
So you've got to seek them out if they're not there.
That was one of the things that I remember the nurse as I was
leaving the hospital. The lactation consultant nurse.
She came into the room, and I've been waiting for her all morning
and she's busy. And so she, she was surprised to
see me again because she'd help me with my breastfeeding with my
first and she said, oh my goodness, you have another baby.
I said, yeah I did and we were talking And then she said, you
know, most people leave before I get here because they don't want
to wait for me. And I told her I said I would
not have left until you got here, because I wanted to have
this conversation with you. And so, reframing your mindset
around that like, oh, it's okay. I'll just go home and figure it
out when I get home. It's like, no, I'm not going to
leave until I had that conversation with the lactation
consultant do to get help because I was when my daughter
was watching, it was not going well.
And I was getting a little frustrated because it was
hurting. And I Pain is a pretty good
driver to get you to stop doing something.
And so when she came into the room and she helps me with
breastfeeding, I looked up at her and I was like, she was like
she just laughed, you know, she was just like, what are you
talking about? Is like, it doesn't hurt and so
again, like, he imagined them all.
And that's at home, like which app nipples?
And she's hurting and she's miserable.
I mean, these are things that again, you know, when you're in
the hospital and those moment don't leave until you see them,
make sure you get a little bit of hand on the ground help.
And yeah as you go to postpartum appointments like speak up if
things are not going well because sometimes doctors don't
have the time to even ask you. So you've got to speak up,
you've got to do that work. So I really want to empower
people to not be expecting systems to reach out to them
because the systems are broken in there over War over
overworked and so be quick to speak up for yourself.
And I think that's something I really feel passionate to say.
So I'm going to say it. So Serie tell me again to kind
of finish up and Wrap up the podcast here.
Tell me, what is it? That what is your vision?
Again for providers and nurse practitioners and lactation,
consultants, and parents to really know about formula.
If you could give them one take-home formula versus
breastfeeding, I know you can't speak on the specifics of the
formula that you make, your company makes, but could you
kind of give us kind of a take-home message that you're
really wanting to provide to my listeners?
Yeah, I think you know you really Eat.
Eat it up right there by asking formula versus breastfeeding
because what I would love for both providers and for patients
and as we shift The Narrative, about infant feeding moving
forward. And try to innovate in this
space is that we stop having a be breastfeeding British formula
and we start talking about impeding holistically unleaded,
it doesn't become this black or white thing.
I think there is such a tendency to keep things.
Black and white in the health space, you know, you're a
crunchy mom, or you're like beating your kids to read O's or
your sleep training, or your attachment parody.
And, you know, I think most of us who are seasoned Healthcare
Providers and parents realize that, that is not reality.
And I think that it sets people up for failure because you can't
really exist in those pieces. And for a lot of us, you know, a
lot of Bobby parents statistically many pair Parents
who are working or just parents, you're pretty good beating.
You're also using breast milk and some capacity and so
creating this division where you have to live on one side of the
aisle is a serving anywhere. In the, I would argue that it's
actually hurting progression. My speedy and education because
were saying you're not allowed in this club and last two can do
it exclusively. Hmm.
So I think that the more that we can see this as a spa Germ of
infant feeding both in the way we care for patients.
And in the way, we go into our own Journeys, the better,
everyone will feel. The more successful patients
will feel the less disempowered, they'll feel the latch same, no
feel. And the more Healthcare
Providers will feel like they are able to support people
because they don't have to just squish them into a box.
Mhm. So that would really be the
number one thing that, you know, oh, I hope personally that I'm
passionate about and also that I'm striving for in the way we
engage Healthcare audiences, it Bobby.
And what we're working for and fading in the community of
feeding friendly practitioners and Healthcare explain X.
And there's a lot of work to be done in that space like it's
gonna take a long time. Yeah.
But what we have seen such positive reception because I
think so many people see this problem and they see that it's
not serving themselves and their Dance or didn't serve them when
they repair it. And that it's, it's empowering
to parents in their healing Journey.
So, excited to continue doing that work.
Yeah, I know. I love it and I think it's so
great that this company has hired a nurse to work in this
space because we know that nurses, that's what our thing
is, right? Is we care about people and
people matter. And again what you're saying
over and over again is we are trying to put with the person
wants at the center. And move towards that goal.
Whichever that is we want to support, however you want.
They're feeding journey to look like and I love the economist
Emily oyster austere thing concerning Lian.
ER yeah yeah, I know, she's so smart and I reading her book,
crib sheet and I've read expecting better and I read I'm
reading currently crib sheet and so she talks a little bit about
breastfeeding and she's you know, kind of combating really
what does the data show, right? And and Those are get.
I encourage you to read the book yourself.
I'm, I've actually just started in, I think I'm going like
chapter 2 or something like that.
I was reading it at my doctor's appointment in the waiting room
and I just thought it was so interesting to see her
perspective as she looks at the data to kind of, you know,
again, work that exact line is pretty much where she comes back
to, right? And so she comes back to if it
works for you. It works and so do it and yet,
you know, but what does the data show?
And so I from having it an interesting.
Timer reading that and hearing the perspective of its maybe not
this thing that we touted as in the data.
And so again, guys read it on your own, if you make your own
decisions in your own, you know, opinions on that, that you can
take. But I think it does kind of let
up a little bit on Mom's for feeling like you're failing
because it's the data even showing that.
If you do these things, that they will really make a change
in the outcomes, which I find very interesting.
So yes, I think I think that there is so much more discussion
that can be had in the more educated health care, nurse
driven perspectives, we could have in the space, the better we
will all because I think that is the sign of intelligence of a
communities to be able to hold two separate idea and in your
brain and to battle them out for yourself, right?
And I think that for me kind of like what you're saying, being
that black and white that's fine, but hold them both and let
them battle in the moment, right?
You could have both thoughts in your brain like oh, a breast is
best. Oh, Oh, you know, formula is
best but at the same time, hold this to thoughts and see if
there's some middle ground that we can live in, or we can
protect people's mental health, we can support people that don't
have systems, that really support them, because the most
successful, women breastfeeding, are those women that stay home?
Well, not all of us. Get to stay home.
So, how do we, how do we miss, you know, navigate those spaces?
And then how do we not throw guilt on the moms that are doing
their best? Because best is what you can do.
That's all that you can guarantee.
And so, yeah. Thank you for saying all that.
Thank you for having this conversation with me around it.
I definitely think it's something that we need to be
doing more of. So thank you, sheriff or coming
all. Yeah, thank you for the
opportunity. I feel like we could talk about
this for hours and hours but if it's been really fantastic three
great. Yeah so for the last part of the
interview Shira I do rapid fire so I'm going to give you some
rapid fire. You ready?
I don't know. Okay yeah I did.
Y'all be afraid. Do I have to accept it?
Good. Five percent, but I will try.
No, you're good. If you had to give up to
somebody, what would it be? Oh gosh, it would be Eros the
Bittersweet. Oh, well I'd ever heard of that
off. Check it out.
What it renders. Its poetry is poetry French
poetry. Okay like that and what are you
watching on Netflix? What are you?
Netflix and chill and these days it's on a flex that I watching
succession, and I just finished cheer, which, I know is very
2020, but I highly recommend. If you haven't watched it, that
you go back and watch it for three, 24 and 0.
Season. If you had to pick a season of
the year that you feel like in bodies, you that you would want
to run all throughout the year, what season would it be Deborah?
Spray. Bring a dozen glaring is hard to
eat. Yeah.
Spring spring spring. I was going to say, I feel like
you're a fall person. I don't know why.
I just got like fall vibes from you, but then I think it's maybe
your shirt and going back and forth between spring and fall,
but spraying that, you know, there's just a lot of
opportunity. Yeah.
Speaking of poetry and being deep spring is like the hope of
something new. So, Oh yes, love it, love it.
Well, thank you Shira for your time and guys again don't forget
to enjoy the journey of your careers.
Thanks for hanging out. So that's a wrap, be sure to
subscribe to the show so you don't miss an episode and leave
me a review. If you like the show, I would
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just a friendly. Reminder, the information on
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information should not be used in substitute for Professional
Care by a medical provider. The information in this podcast
does not represent medical or professional advice or services.
Message me at the doctor nurse podcast at gmail.com with any
career professions that you're interested in hearing about and
just a friendly. Reminder, the information on
this podcast is for educational purposes only and the
information should not be used in substitute for Professional
Care by a medical provider. The information in this podcast
does not represent medical or professional advice or services.