Hi guys and welcome to episode number two of the doctors
podcast unscripted as promised. This space is where I intersect
nursing with life. I'm creating this space to
introduce you guys to Concepts and ideas to help you grow your
career and set yourself apart As you move throughout your nursing
career. Today, we have Chris Chopra who
is the co-founder and CEO of NP Hub which is the largest P
preceptor placement agency in the United States.
I want to show you how you can make some extra coin and
addition to your salary. Let's dive in the show.
Hi, welcome. Chris to the doctor nurse
podcast. So happy to have you on today.
I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for those that are
just tuning in. Can you kind of describe what it
is that you do? What your company is about?
Yeah, I am a co-founder and I'm the CEO of NP Hub.
We are the largest Largest nurse practitioner preceptor placement
agency in the country. We help students find clinical
sites around the country because for whatever reason it is
graduate nurses. Get the shaft and students
universities do not help them find clinical rotations.
And as a result what you have is thousands of nurses every month
really that are delaying graduation that are unable to
find preceptors that are begging and pleading, literally cold
calling to try to Find a clinical site and that's where
we come. So I'm the CEO of the company.
We have been really fast growing.
We're about I think at last count may be around 45
employees, we handle well over 2,000 2,500 placements a year
now between wow every month were helping at least 200 students.
And the truth is we could probably help another to 300
like this. If we had them preceptors.
So that's really, you know, my main job here is just helping a,
my company grow making sure that we're doing.
The right thing, believe you can build a business and to care
about your community and care about the customers and clients
you, serve and for whatever reason and nurses get the shaft
there, like our teachers, here are over watch me under p and,
you know, I think I kind of classify myself as like a nurse
advocate in the way this maybe have a yeah.
But that's like the yeah that's one of the reasons why I wanted
to have you on the podcast and to have you come and talk to
nurses because a big focus of the doctors podcast is creating
a level of stuff. Because he for nurses to ask for
what they're worth and to go out and find side hustles your
business and what you're the leader of is an opportunity for
nurses to generate some side revenue from their skills and
their expertise. One of the things I'd like to
kind of touch on before we dive more into.
What npf is. How much can nurses, make all
this stuff? Tell me, why is it that you
think nurses or universities aren't plug?
Being in their students with preceptors, like what is going
on there in your opinion? That's a really good question.
I think that for whatever reason that the in graduate nursing,
what you've add is, because the typical student is typically
older, they're working full time.
They probably been an RN for a few years.
They tend to be a bit older of a crap.
So you're not it's not a direct rope, right?
You're not going from or I mean you see it sometimes now we go
all rent and Pete but I think a lot of nurses have their opinion
and they don't like that, right? You And a half nursing
experience. So, as a result nurses tend to
want the flexibility, and I think universities have created
this more hybrid online model to help accommodate for it.
When you decentralize the location of your students, it's
hard to build a clinical site infrastructure.
That's like the fancy way of saying like, Okay, because you
go online and do you recruit students from multiple different
states, you can build in these clusters of rotations and every
state, but if you focus on Sykes, a Atlanta or New York or
whatever. It's easier.
Just like building a husband, even though that's chapter.
But then that's what's happening in this space right now.
I think you're right, look, a lot of universities as amazing
as they are, they are understaffing their clinical
departments. So that way, there's very little
emphasis cawing or energy given to the preceptor.
So, the preceptors are like, no helping me do anything and they
just they had to do all the heavy lifting.
Tell me a little bit about how you develop 10p.
Hub and how you saw this Gap and how you filled it with your
business and kind of walk me through your entrepreneurial
Journey. My very first company.
I started failed actually, is that in real estate investing
which just made no sense, because I was 23.
I did not invest in real estate, but might basically what had
happened is, I had quit a full-time job in New York City.
Moved down to Atlanta to sort of restart.
Say it up six months of money, trying to start a company.
And I first company like I mentioned failed after So I two
months of expenses raining, like I lesson like a crinum and I was
20. For at the time, Leslie gray
through a savings and I just needed to prove to myself.
I could be an entrepreneur in my culture.
Like, you know, I like I'm a first gen Indian in the air and
in the u.s. it are are like our culture.
If I you're smart, you become a doctor an engineer every
stereotype that does exist, guys.
So like that's like real and I didn't fit for right.
I was never like the book smart person.
So yeah, I wanted to prove myself, I could be an
entrepreneur and my first company.
I started helping medical students including stations and
And in that organization that business we partnered with
universities typically was International programs and we
were sort of like their outsourced placed MIT
department. And we had a student for two
years there are core rotations for 48 weeks and then their
electives right? 26 weeks or whatever is a good
total of 70 or something like that.
And in the med school space, we were like one of 15 competitors.
We did a good job. It was cool.
Yeah but We never I never realized that like I could never
imagine that U s-- and p-- programs but their students
through the ringer like this. Like I always thought it was
like okay these International programs are underfunded okay
look I get it but in the end piece base is u.s. in the u.s.
like you don't have that right? But how can we do this and again
at the RN level it's set up pretty well.
Right. It's like you have your
clinicals that you go through these you go through this over
and over again. You're really focus on passing
and cuts, like you just go An art, it, but int probably there.
So, just got, I don't see poorly organized, the wrong word, but
they're just, it's organized different.
So in the end of that thing, that you were saying, yes, it's
decentralized, so it's more fragmented that exactly think,
maybe it's the word. It feels very fragmented.
Know your then you do a lot of nurse practitioners, students
will describe feeling like kind of a lone Island because you go
to school online, you're working as an RN and you're just kind of
all by yourself. He just feels very alone.
Damn process. The hospitals were you working
at. They don't care about you.
You see, everything that's happened in the last two years,
but I think I could absolutely say that and I don't think
anyone would text and then your NP programs aren't able to give
you the personal attention. So literally you're graduating
and you add this massive imposter syndrome.
As I m going through, but to finish up on the story thing in
the MD space, we were one of 15 competitors and we did a good
job. I was proud of the work that we
in the end piece base if we don't do what we did and we
didn't make that transition. These NP soon as I graduate.
So for me, it was just a matter of like, I can run a good
business and Andy's face, or I could do something unique in the
ANP space and like really get to help community.
That gets the underserved alacrity Source.
Yeah. And they get overlooked.
So that was a, I love your first story that you told me about
your first nurse practitioner that reached out to you and was
asking for help and she was emotional when again and again
like you weren't even servicing NPCs, like they came to You had
like, could you help me? Yeah and that's what really got
you into that business. It actually is super, like
emotional story that you shared with me.
It was our first year of business in 2015 and outside of
Starbucks in Atlanta, Georgia and get this call.
Because again, we work with Med students and we had with the
website, so people would enroll saying, okay, could you help us
reach out to meet cetera? It was an MP student and she was
from Walden University. I didn't even understand what
her parents. We had no idea how to price but
she basically said like Like, I sat out a year.
I cannot find a preceptor of in Atlanta, and I just need a
pediatric freezer. I just happen to have recruited
a preceptor in Lawrenceville Georgia.
It would just like, kind of like a suburb of Atlanta.
So, yeah, he called his prefabricate.
Would you take the student? This is the documents.
They need a little bit more than normal.
Just can you sign it and return it back to me?
Then, to three hours. We had this back and she was
little crying. Like she was just like how does
this Gene understand and piece I think are used to being alone
and being Isolated him and fear is having like a service that
could just kind of get it done for the just right there.
Yeah, there is a level of that isolation that then continues
into practice, you end up becoming a provider that works
independently that thinks that it enhances a scarcity mindset
because if you think preceptors are in abundance and I've got
options Galore, then you generate and you operate
differently as an MP. But if you're in this mindset
of, there's not enough. Receptors can get anyone to find
a preceptor for me and you think I'll send it now?
You're going to be like, oh, let me have pay transparency and let
people know what I'm making and then, let me make sure that
there's enough money for me to get paid a salary that I feel
like is appropriate for the work that I'm doing and not just
taking, whatever Physicians offer us and just go thanks for
the job. It just keeps us in this
scarcity mindset. It's just is so limiting for.
You shouldn't have a preceptor shortage issue.
This seems completely just awful to me that we, you don't have
enough receptors because we should be presenting Enough
options. So that every nurse practitioner
student can find someone so that we can have this abundance
mindset up. Come, there's enough for all of
us not enough. I agree with you.
Three hundred percent. Because so here's something
interesting that you said when you're an orange before you've
gone and peaceful from a hot from like a ballad, G Hospital
perspective. And I know, like, when I say
something like this, who are you calling for more than a balance,
from like a hospital perspective?
You're all the cost side of service, right?
You are under the line. Anyone's look at financial
statements are under the line. You're cops?
Yes. But when you are a tenpin, your
provide you are no longer than your income generating.
The business case, what? Generally happens if you
generate income is that, you repaid, your base, which is
should be a fair base and there is some sort of incentive bonus,
right? Let me ask you something.
When you're at practice Hydra and you see if in a day, you can
give incredible care to 25 patients.
Versus someone else, who can give incredible care to 20,
patients with a you are twenty five twenty percent better 25%,
Sydney math. All my dad.
But hit me right now. You are 25% better if it's and
that there needs to be a reward because otherwise any reason why
not why would you continue to work hard?
We don't need to have this mindset of.
You should do this out of the goodness of your heart and have
that be this sort of like opposite sign of like being
financially abundant if that makes sense.
Right? Like why can't those two things
coexist? They want to become a good
person and want to Money. Why are those two things
mutually exclusive? I don't doubt understand that.
I don't understand that and that's one of the things I want
to start generating conversations around for NPS
showing what you're worth. Also having a good heart, you
can still be a nurse practitioner, those things
intersect and that's okay. I want nurse practitioners to
create side hustles to do things independent of their workplace.
If their work least isn't paying them what they deserve, then go
and find and create and do things that are going to bring
you money to supplement your income.
Come eventually, you can leave that other job and go do the
thing that brings you Joy and light you up in an
entrepreneurial space. If you want to if not you can
find another company that's going to pay.
You you can go into industry, you can go into corporate like
there are spaces for nurses in every field especially if you
feel like you're not being compensated appropriately and I
love that NP Hub. Is an option for nurses to
generate some income. And with that being said, please
describe to The structure of NP have and describe to me kind of
how the process works don't lie. So I think the easiest reference
point I like to explain this Airbnb.
So we developed a platform that helps connect nursing NP
students with preceptors around the country.
The idea like you said, we're a few minutes ago was that again?
NP students precept, free throws are massively underappreciated.
So I model was okay, let's bring them together.
Let's appreciate is community. That's all week, we appreciate
the community and Then on the other side of the student side
is, the students are beg. Borrow and pleading, for the
preceptor, what if we gave him options?
What if they can actually choose the preceptor, they wanted to
work as opposed to begging for anyone that says, yes, right?
And that's why you could get a look at.
So, on the NP Hub on the, on the platform.
But you can go to our website. There, you could basically
search for preceptors, given your criteria for your student.
Okay? So hey, I'm looking for a
women's health, preceptor in Dallas, Texas to start on this
date, and then you'll see. Maybe five options come up for
three options, come up or 20 options or whatever, it's angry
character in a market and twenty options and then you literally
can open up these tabs and we'll read through the descriptions.
Okay. Hey, the patient population is
this, this is the type of patients that they see.
This is the dress code that this is a note that the student
appreciative might leave for the student.
Hey, I want to ask fourth semester, students, preferably
because I might want to hire you afterwards.
So like first semester you didn't know him like I do.
This is a fast-paced clinic. They see 30 patients a day.
I'm not quick food but this is a slower car.
Now they see five patients a day.
Ten patients a day, that's good for.
I want to go there, you know, so there's extra clouds are
matching experience. So on the student side, they
have this platform, they can come in on the preceptor side
right for then, it's making this experience easy for because it's
been such a massive barrier to precip.
Do you want a precipice student? You basically can like randomly,
just, like, put it online, put on social media or something
like that and like a You're gonna start messaging.
You don't know anything about that.
The resume don't have the experience, you don't know
anything about them when you get a request, when your preceptor
on our platform you basically reach out to someone on our team
and they basically give you this walkthrough.
They ask you these questions, they interview you what's your
clinic life? Well the patient's you see
everything that everything is going to ask you over and over
and over and over and over again.
Every time they want to know about your experience, we put it
up to you, get a request then you get a text message.
Hey, You got a request, check out it under dash, okay?
And you can request your CD. You want to interview, okay, let
us know organizing hearing treat.
Everybody just wants a bright student.
That's understandable you? Yeah, what we've seen is
preceptors People want to precept, but the issue is a lot
of times at work there bogged down with with, they either had
two issues. It had students in the past, has
ruined it for them or and work. It's really busy, and they're
afraid to slow down. So what you may want to
interpret them, you may want to communicate with them and I
think for us being that barrier in between does two things, it
makes the student, take the precepting experience, more
seriously, and the preceptor takes it more seriously, as well
as when there's a financial exchange.
There's also a sense of ownership over this.
I love this quote that says, when you pay, you pay attention,
I love that book was, it's not great because when you play the
gold you there's this kind of connection between the moment
you put Government me your little more invested in.
Okay, where is this going? What's happening?
Because it hurts a little bit right on the 3, chapter side as
well. When they are receiving some
sort of compensation optimization, they're taking it
more seriously. Yes, it is true.
It's more than just. Oh yeah.
But Mia come Shadow me a little bit and all things are getting
busy. Don't show up to there are no we
don't have What you're describing is that the people
that are paying for this service they really want they want yet
laid clinical experience here at thousand percent, right?
And it's funny budesonide, some of our students eventually
turned into. Obviously they have serious
eventually, become preceptors, but we've actually add in
several cases, students, open up a clinic in their old preceptor
ended up being the, the collaborating physician.
In some cases. Why is it really gonna study
credible? Let's talk a little bit again,
to finish up. Wrap up.
How can a sign up? And again, what is the like,
average pay? What are the average preceptor
pay? And then how do they sign up to
join npm as it's a great question.
So how you sign up is basically you can go to nba.com and then
there's a button that a compass has become a preceptor, and you
can put in your information there and someone in our team
will reach out to you probably the fastest way any other way is
you can also even though it's kind of rare, you could also
just go to our website and you'll see our phone number and
choose a text. Say, Hey, I want to present and
believe me. So I was going to call you.
Oh, quick, grab hungry. They're ready for you.
All right, now, in terms of compensation, so, it does, there
is a range, right? So different Specialties.
We basically have tried to create as much triple most
possible. So, we allow our preceptors in a
way to sort of like choose their own pricing will let you know
what, what what the typical is. And if you want to increase it
or you want to Preset base of what a typical is in your area.
That's based of specialty location.
You can do that, I would say, on average, most our preceptors,
take two students of semester. And I would like to say that a
thousand per student is very reasonable.
You know it could be. Did you hear that?
That wasn't pursued. It could be less than 750.
You shouldn't be any less than 50.
It could be more if you like really hot specialty and like
New York City or like La fine, get it but like doesn't 317.
When you're taking two students, a semester for 38 students, a
year that they Grant your team of six students a year.
That's extreme Guys nurses kidnappee broke or for doubt we
should not be hooked again. Check out MP Hub.
See if it's something that you want to do with your business.
If you own your own business taking on students just extra
income, I know students will especially NP students would
love to see an entrepreneur. We want more people doing what
we're all doing. So we're not short staffed or
we're not all tired of are not exhausted.
Like there's a there's plenty to go around.
I definitely feel Like we need to do a better job at a
cultivating in abundance mindset having students on letting them
see what you do. Not only that it will change you
as the preceptor. If you can create connections,
if you can mentor. And take this person that you're
bringing on as a student, you might find that you could
actually end up changing their lives.
You could end up being the person that they go.
I had this one preceptor and she did this and it changed.
My trajectory for my life or whichever, and that's really
what it's about. We're not in competition, we're
supposed to be collaborating with one another.
And I love that story that they ended up collaborating at the
end of their preceptorship because they were like, You're
great and I want you working with me and we should have that
should be the Mantra that we have in nursing Adrian.
You know, you meet our prices. You know what it was we paid or
NPCs the same apparent these We're really important to me
when we're creating this, we're going to pay or NP, the same new
pages are empty. So the kickback was like, yeah,
we made less money, but that's why.
Because just because you can charge see for us.
Just can you give me be paid in your freezer for last?
Because they're not used to being paid, doesn't mean you
should does it mean you could just look at you, the charge
will spend it more. It doesn't mean you should, you
know, there's ethics involved with how we do things, very good
people sleep at night, I want to make it super clear to, you
know, like my team is going to be like you did say to write
what we will, can't we pay our preceptors?
More it, for the longer, the students there.
So, one of the things that really drives me nuts is people
aren't really valued for their time.
They, this is just like it's Doric, right?
So, you do extra work, you should get paid more, you take a
student on for 2:00. There's more compensation, take
a student office, its jobs is less competition.
That's reasonable. That's fair, even though that's,
yeah, they don't want everyone to know that.
So you taking on these students for longer hours, it's more than
1,000. So keep that in mind, it is
Crazy. How many students preceptors
have told us that having a student, especially for the
preceptor that are sort of, like, on the fence.
It's like maybe they had a year to you.
Need a year of experience, a qualifying to be a preceptor.
Don't think the suit? This is the rule for every
school. These priests scepters, these
new preceptors, he's fresh and peas.
That one, two, three years of experience that still have that
sort of like Aang. Sometimes they are like I'm not
ready to teach something I'd want to.
There's so many priests a that they do it and they and it's
like this confidence boost of how much SLI, no kala bad are
they were right there and then because they still remember what
it was like to feel so lonely and then people today are the
best precepts. Yeah, that makes so much sense,
he knows what if you're still hearing about it you're like oh
I'll do it in a few years. Just think about Precepting one
student is not a commitment. Just tried one and see if it
actually is like you're not ready yet or if you're just a
little nervous that's really good.
Any other qualifications that they need?
I would say that, you know, one year of experience valid
license, obviously. Yeah.
The the the ki-45 Specialties tend to get the most requests
which is primary care, Women's Health Pediatrics.
Like mental health, he even a major Market.
That's why I love and be happy because it's like, okay, I can
go do that. I can go make more little bit
more. Money over here and two thousand
dollars that can, you know? Again if you're saying eight
thousand dollars a year back, I can't change the needle on
certain things, hey, your house quicker, I can change the needle
on student loans. Student loves that can change
the needle on putting away for your college for your children,
that, that changes the needle. First, a lot of things for
people. And so, yeah, we can't
underestimate these little things that we can do as we work
at a bigger and micro job. Macro job, Then we can have our
hand in multiple pots. You never want to just be in one
pot with you. I think what really kills me is
that this understanding that I feel like I would never have
these conversations wouldn't happen when I'm talking it and
decrease that, there's or empties.
This is what bothers me. The most is that they're doing
the same thing, but in one, it's just like this ideological thing
of, oh, I shouldn't be able to do this or we should do this.
We should just have the goodness of our heart.
That's what you hear every going to talk to University.
Oh beep a preset. There's no.
They should do the goodness of their heart.
I'm sorry. Priest nurse, who hasn't you
know, bit seen a patient in 50 years.
What's happening right now is you cannot scale education.
You cannot solve the the health care shortage in the US by the
goodness of someone's heart is never anything but a problem you
fix it to a scalable solution that fits everybody.
Okay, sure. I wish food.
I was free and I could get free Transportation everywhere in the
world or public transportation. Every city was free, but this is
not how these people hurts. Nurses have been taught to just
go work in the hospital. Don't look around, don't and
it's like, no, we need to be questioning, we need to be
looking around, we need to be seeing, what are their options
are? And not feel like we can't do
other things. And I think that, that is also
bad and we end up staying oppressed by not seeing all the
options that we have Mikhail dream when you're told narrowly.
You could only go here. So, I'm only going to be a
primary care nurse practitioner. But yet I found out afterwards,
like, oh wait, I can first assist at the bedside, like
what? Oh, I can help.
Like Harvest like veins. And I can learn how to do what
pig know that I did not know interested in yours.
Let's open him up. Let's let people see what's
going on around here. Let's let the left hand know
what the writing it's doing. Let's talk, let's talk.
That's interesting, you're right.
And we can't have those conversations if we aren't
collaborating, if we aren't talking again, scarcity, mindset
doesn't allow for more opportunities.
It decreases opportunities. It created you look at Bombs
instead of this could possibly solve, this could actually be
solutions by looking at it through an abundance lens.
No, you're right, you're absolutely right.
Yeah. You're describing like a growth
mindset. It growth-oriented growth
mindset community of nurses that this probably not nearly enough
of them. Erin, I would imagine, then you
kind of bringing like East expert, nurses, to kind of like
yourself or like the need and Pete kind of do a talk and like,
share that with the community and really give us knowledge.
Yeah, and there's some of those He's out there.
Yeah, I've never heard sisters are creating them.
I've been to a couple of them. I've been a part of them and
they're great. You just go and you talk about
the things that you want to be a part of and you are passionate
about and things that you want to see in nursing.
What I love is that the people that are in charge of them
really want to make sure that the people are being fostered
and they're being seen and they're being, you know,
encouraged and stuff like that. So they're out there for sure.
So for the last part of the interview and ready, we do.
Rapid fire. OK, these are coming at you
fast, you're ready or not to curse.
Well, that's okay. Oh yeah.
What's the best age to be? The age you are.
The age you are not, right? And what is your favorite game
of all time? Lord gay.
We game a chat, says chest comes to my only chance challenge.
Okay. Okay.
Get the game of strategy. And then what are you most
grateful for in the whole wide world?
My team. And I care a lot about like
especially with my first 15 20 employees, like it, it gives me
a reason to try to get, I do it. I do a lot of what I do for
them. Yeah, that's really cool because
that's again, leadership trickles down, right?
And so they know when you care about them.
So when they know when you have that serve it like you would do
anything for these people. People work differently when
they feel that way. I think from a preceptor point
of view, it's you guys about underappreciated for a long time
and you shouldn't be whether you presumptive us.
If we suppose someone else is more than enough to go.
Right. But you shouldn't get support
and I think that's the biggest thing.
It doesn't need to be the time, so that's our.
I'm on a hub guys. It's not something that I'm just
preaching, and I'm not about and I think that again more NPS need
to just jump on. We need to support our nurse
practitioner students and ain't nothing wrong with getting paid
while you do it. So that's a wrap.
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